Interview With Becky Dobbs

Introduction

Rebekah: I am so excited I get to interview Becky Dobbs. She is the owner of Elleven Salon in Huntsville, Alabama. Becky has been a master stylist, a colorist, a trainer. She specializes in hair design, finishing and dimensional color. Becky’s been in Huntsville for over 30 years, and she’s been a hairstylist for over 40 years. Today she’s dedicated to the why behind color and design, balancing her own creative vision with her guests’ needs and desires. She believes in continuing education for all stylists, implementing a continuing education plan for her stylists at her salon so that herself and those that she mentors would never stop growing. Becky and I met about 10 years ago, right, Becky? It was at a photo shoot workshop with Vivienne Mackinder. Becky was one of the hairstylists on the shoot, and I got to do the fashion styling and produce that shoot, and we worked together on many other projects over the years since then.

Getting started: family, a babysitter and Redken

Rebekah: So tell us a little bit about how you got started in the beauty industry. We had mentioned earlier that you had some family members that were involved in the industry.

Becky: Yes, I had two aunts that were hairdressers, and one of them was also married. Her husband was a hairdresser. They always were so kind. They always gave you lots of attention, the way a hairdresser would give attention to somebody. Very complimentary. And they had like four salons. So it was one of those where I was like, I think I’d like to go to school. And I had a hairdresser when I was 12. That was my babysitter. And I never felt so important in my whole life. What she gave to me, the time, the kindness, the attention to how I looked. And I was just like, wow. She just made you feel so special. And so that’s kind of how I got into the industry, through my aunt and uncle.

Rebekah: And then you were inspired by your babysitter too, who was also a hairdresser.

Becky: Yes. And my aunt and uncle were also into continuous education, and they would have hairdressers in for classes. And of course, I’d be the model. Of course, I was in beauty school and working, but she would always make sure I would go to the shows with them. So she would take care of my expenses there, because she said, you have to continue with education all the time. I was pretty blessed with that.

Rebekah: And so did you work in their salon when you first got started? Tell me.

Becky: Well, actually, I was like, do I want to work? And she was like, well, I think you should go apply with Redken and go teach. I think you’d really like that. [inaudible] You have the ability to do that. And of course, it was a big challenge for me to get right out of beauty school and interview with Redken to be an educator. But I did get the job. So three states later, I had three states to cover, and they made sure I was educated. We had all the training. And I was always in admiration of the hairdressers and the trainers that I got to work with, and work at the shows. And it really gave me an insight to the other side, versus just behind the chair. And then I ended up leaving and going working for my aunt and uncle. And I worked for them and was supposed to take over the company. But I met somebody and moved down to Huntsville. Minneapolis, that was in Minneapolis. So I moved down to Huntsville and started as a hairdresser. And of course, that was rebuilding your whole clientele. So I worked probably 12 years before I ended up opening a salon with two other partners.

Opening salons in Huntsville

Rebekah: So you started out working in a full service salon yourself.

Becky: Knew that eventually I would like to open a salon. Had a baby, and after that decided, you know how you get together with your friends, and we decided to open a salon. Our husbands were very good. Sheetrock, tearing things down, helping rebuild. So they were really helpful in helping us to build it out, and we didn’t have to try to go get a contractor or something like that. So that was really beneficial. And then the learning [inaudible] started. From payroll to taxes, to hiring, to working behind the chair full time, was another eye-opening learning experience.

Rebekah: So Becky, you said that you started with a group of people. So you guys went in together. I didn’t realize that. I thought you actually were by yourself.

Becky: In the very beginning, in 1985, we opened the salon. There were three of us. And then in, I think, 92, they didn’t really want to run a salon anymore. I wasn’t sure I could do it by myself. So we ended up closing, and I was like, no, let’s not close. But I wasn’t confident enough that I thought I could do it all by myself. So then I went to work in a salon in Huntsville. And I worked in two places and then decided to go open a salon.

Rebekah: And so then you started again.

Becky: Started again. And the salon I was at, I didn’t realize he was going to close. So it was kind of like a challenge to me. So ended up growing it. And I ended up at that time as a booth renter, kind of had a partner that we ended up going into a partnership. And it wasn’t a good fit whatsoever. I knew that I needed to go and do my own thing. If I would have really had a super choice, I would have probably been like, oh, I don’t know. But I didn’t feel like, for the people that were working for me, that staying there would be the best thing. So I just went ahead and found a place and just opened up another salon. And that was 17 years ago. And that’s Elleven Salon today.

Why education keeps her going

Becky: And we have great staff. I have an associate program. We also can do apprenticeship in this state. And so I still, I think education is what keeps you going. I think if you ever hear, I may be kind of bored [inaudible], it’s time for some more education. It’s time to challenge yourself and grow a little bit more. That’s what has kept me in the industry, in a sense. Now, I do love it. I love all aspects of it. But if I didn’t have the continuous education and just the challenging yourself… I hear a lot of, oh, I can’t do that. I’m like, oh, yes, you can. You can do it.

Becky: If you have the desire. I think your passion fuels your income. I don’t think money fuels a passion. So I really believe you have to have a passion and you need to challenge yourself. And it’s okay to make mistakes. And it’s okay to move on. And yes, it’s hard work. And yes, sometimes it’s frustrating. I think that’s just life itself, with anything. But there is the freedom to not put any limitations on your career. You can grow and go. And there are so many different aspects of this career that you can choose something that really motivates you and focus on. I love the fact that I don’t have to wait for, I don’t know, I guess I would say, well, maybe in 2025 they’re going to… raises or something like that. You can really choose to overextend and grow where you want to grow. And with your success always comes more responsibility to pass it on or help others. It’s a really giving profession to me. You really value the people you work with. And you value the fact that they have the respect of working behind the chair all day. And it’s never mundane. If it’s mundane, it’s like, oh, it’s time. It’s time for a little new challenge that keeps you excited about learning something new or trying something different, and getting inspired in any aspect of the industry that you want to succeed at. I still love it.

Building an associate program

Rebekah: That’s awesome, Becky. So you built an associates program really from the ground up. What would you say was your main motivation and goal for that?

Becky: To really instill education into the kids that are coming out of school. And speaking, or just consulting, I wish I could change the way that you get your license, that it has to be half school and half working and having associates. I wanted to attract graduates who wanted to keep learning and were really kind of thriving and passionate about the industry. And you have to give a part of not only your work time away, but your extra time, to continue your education, to continue growing. Because once you finish school, you’re not done. You’re just starting. To give them that chance to know why they’re doing what they’re doing. The extra training, when we bring in other hairdressers, to be inspired and see that there’s something bigger out there. Your desire to learn, and you’re passionate about it, you’re going to care about the people. You’re going to care about them, and you’re going to care about the service and the quality that you give them. They feel that. But just to walk in and get a haircut, you can do that anywhere. But I think there’s a lot of hairdressers that don’t realize [inaudible] that they can. You continue to grow personally. You continue to level up and just get more and more, and you learn how to pass it on to help others.

Rebekah: You have a heart to pour into the next generation of stylists. That’s been something since you began, because you started in education, so you were pouring into other people, and I think that’s great. What advice would you give to other salon owners who maybe want to build that apprenticeship program themselves? What would you recommend that they do to get started?

Becky: I would recommend that they go to the school. You can set up a time to go talk to the students, that you have a program almost like creating a master’s program. That yes, you have your license, you will be done, but to feel more skilled, from communicating with the guests to understanding the color or the age group, the professionalism, I think is really important. And kind of to check out other salons for the kind of culture you would like to be in. Not necessarily going to a culture that is totally opposite of what you want to grow in your profession. Just getting out there and introducing, starting with one or two, and growing a culture of what they can associate with you and learn. Also have opportunity days that they can bring in.

Social media has made a big, big difference from when I grew up. Yes, you still get referrals, but we had to go out and pass out our cards and [inaudible]. We didn’t have social media. Now you can show off your work. Now you can do all different kinds of [inaudible] and attract. So I think there is a difference with social media and without. Really, you can grow yourself with social media, but do you have the retention to re-attract and to grow, and put your social media out in the type of people that you would like, if it’s color or if it’s vivid or if it’s just hair design? It’s almost, to me, I would think with social media, which is not my cup of tea, just to see and get your work out there and grab their attention. Even though you can be great at that, you still have to be great behind the chair.

Becky: Some states can’t do apprenticeships. [inaudible] You have to have a license. You have to finish school. As to where, like, that’s in Alabama, or I think Georgia can. I think there’s where you can do the full school [inaudible] salon, but it’s just a lot more hours.

Rebekah: So you’re saying that someone could come to your salon who’s never even gone to hair school, and then they can get trained. But you also take students from school, graduates, and it’s kind of like getting their masters.

Becky: Yep. And then we take them and grow them from there. I think there’s a lot that they don’t learn in school. Of course, you get put out. It’s like cold sales, in a sense. You could never have done this and you’ve got to go sell yourself. Well, I’m not sure how to do that. So there’s a lot that you can instill in them and inspire, and give them different ideas, different ways to better themselves, even how to do the best pictures, how to edit. A lot that first year. But I think if you can be willing to absorb it… A lot of times you’re more fearful of what you don’t know. I don’t know, so I’ll back away, versus working with your mentor. This scares the heck out of me. Okay, well, [inaudible]. Let’s do it. Well, how can we do this and break it down, and almost make it a workable project, instead of, okay, this is what you get right now. It’s helping them take those baby steps to what they need to do.

Training, mentoring and the associate path

Rebekah: And they have a lot they need to do themselves. That’s above and beyond even working with you.

Becky: Yeah. And they also see what it’s like to be really busy, double booked, their hands on. They kind of get into a comfort of, I’m not so scared, I think I can do this, or I’m not a deer in the headlights. So what I do is start them out with associate. They have an opportunity [inaudible]. And then they get another one, rather than saying, okay, your program is up, you’re hitting the floor. It’s a way to grow that and set goals. Get one day. Let’s hit two days, let’s hit three days, and work with them on the retention. And so, yeah, I wish I would have had that. I do. I think being with somebody that you’re asking questions, and seeing, and it’s a see-do. And usually we are more visual, to see it and then know why it is, or breaking something down like, how can I do this? Asking how can I do this, versus I can’t do this.

Rebekah: Right. What would you say, Becky, is the biggest benefit to someone as an owner, or maybe a trainer, to get to train someone? What would you say is the biggest reward or benefit for them?

Becky: As a salon owner, I would say I get to grow my culture. I get to grow people. And as a trainer, it would be creating that training program where you are kind of going to be like your mentor most of the time. Just the proudness of being proud to see somebody grow to six figures. And it’s amazing. It’s like, wow, and you get to be a part of that, right? And you continually grow and hope that they will work towards wanting to be a trainer. Not everybody does. We started here switching our associates to different hairdressers so that they can get different… They see different ways or different visions, or learning different, maybe, toning effects or something from somebody versus somebody else. So you get a good rounding of everything.

Rebekah: That’s great.

Becky: So far, that’s worked pretty good.

Bringing in shareholders

Rebekah: When you started in the industry, you started with being partners with others, having other owners, and then you ended up starting Elleven Salon by yourself. And then you ended up later raising up team members and having partners again, right? That’s something that [inaudible] recently. For those that have been solo owners, and that’s hard to move into that, how did you know? How did you pick your team? How did you know it was time? And what kind of qualities were you looking for in those people?

Becky: Honestly, one of my shareholders was at the front desk. Started with me at the front desk, and she was awesome. People skills. She cared, she wanted to grow. And at first, I didn’t really realize that there was a little eagerness in the back of her that she wanted to become a hairdresser. And you see also, as an owner, how much people want to help you, certain things, and you can give different, like the computers or things that run in. It’s like, can you get that? And they take that on, and they keep taking it on. Or they may really enjoy the aspects of running the salon, or taking not only training, but also leading people, inspiring them, and they are really dedicated to the industry. And it’s better to share, to me. When I grew up, it was like, well, I think we should open our own. We have no clue what we’re doing. We have nothing. As to where having shareholders, they do stuff, and it’s like you bring it in together. It’s a great way to learn how to communicate. And you have to feel trust. I thought I trusted a couple of times a long time ago, but I really should have followed my gut. But I didn’t. And it’s also a way for salon owners to exit.

Becky: Because most of the time, unless somebody wants to buy a second or third location, usually selling involves you continuing to work there, because you’re part of that. But this is a way to be able to pass on things that I’ve done, that I can now show them. And it’s a way of, instead of jumping off the mountain, you’re [inaudible] down it and learning as you do that. And just being able to have somebody, like a mentorship almost, in a sense. But you know that they really care, and you can feel that trust, and just having things up front. You’re not afraid to talk to them or share things. I think that it is a really unique way, if you’ve got the right connection, to be able to work your way into ownership, if that’s what you would like. Or even if you don’t want to be total ownership, you could have 25% of the company, and you don’t have to be a hairdresser. There are a lot of salon coordinators that run the front and manage the front that I know are shareholders, because they want to share in the profit, share in the growth of the company.

Setting up stylist levels

Rebekah: And Becky, you’ve done the whole levels thing with your stylists, with your team. The idea that you have invested in a growth plan, where they have things to look forward to, so they’re not just getting a job with you and then always doing the same thing. You have always cared about levels and creating that growth plan with them. Talk a little bit about that. If a salon owner hasn’t done that, maybe that hasn’t been a part of their culture, how would they get started?

Becky: One of the things, as being a hairdresser myself, there are different people that are going to grow in different ways. And if I, as a hairdresser, want to get into the industry, go to school, associate, and I want to grow, I could either grow fast. What am I willing to give to grow fast, versus maybe if I decided to have two kids first, or whatever. I think that you should have levels with different pricing. Like our associates, they have to have so much retention, so many clients, so many retail to service. And then as they get to a certain number, they get to jump to a level one. The level one has its own amount of stylist retention, yada yada. And so you go from one to two, and at level three and four is when you can have an associate. So it helps you to be able to get to the next level, but you’re also in a training position. It’s not an assistant, it is an associate. So you work with them.

Rebekah: So what’s the difference, Becky? Maybe you can talk about that for a minute.

Becky: An assistant is somebody that I just pay hourly, that is going to do exactly what I want, and you go home. I don’t care where you decide to go or what you’re going to do one day. If you want to just assist me, that’s fine. I don’t have to train you.

Rebekah: So you’re not pouring into them. They’re just holding things for you [inaudible].

Becky: I think, honestly, in my honest opinion, as an associate, you start out as an assistant associate, because you’re not going to go tag in colors with me if you just got out of school. So we’re going to go into a see-do. Assist, learn, shadowing, just dance with them. You’re kind of showing them as you grow, and grow in your work in two chairs or three chairs in half the time, because you do have two associates. You do have to give them yourself too. And I think for me, it’s taught me a lot about, am I delivering it the right way? Are they able to receive it the way I’m trying to deliver? Or do I need to change my method a little? As they grow, it’s up to them to want to get to a certain point, a certain income. And I think too, there’s a lot of challenge, as far as it’s not just about the money. It’s also about your education and how you continue to get more education. And you don’t have to do 40 hours a week all the time and work six days a week. You can do this in 25, 32 hours. So what are their service goals? What are their retail goals, their retention, their booking, or their reviews, or what are they posting on social media? So we give them a lot of opportunities within that time to get to where they want to be. And when you sit down, what do you want to do is one of the biggest questions. It’s like, where would you like to be a year from now? What would you like to be able to buy? I want to buy a house. Okay, so let’s see how to work with them, and not put my thoughts that I have.

Rebekah: Yeah, because you have goals for them, right? You’re like, I want to see, let’s go, let’s go. But they have to want it, right? They have to desire that growth and have their own goals and their own ambition, right?

Becky: Yeah. And sometimes some are faster, sometimes some are slower. Sometimes when you have two children, you can’t, versus no children. There’s a time of, okay, my [inaudible] is only a couple years before they get in school, then I have more time to dedicate. I think it’s something that could take a long time to get to, but as long as you enjoy what you’re doing and you love, it’s going to come. It’s just going to happen. If you really care and put value in the people that you are servicing, I think it just comes.

Rebekah: So Becky, say a salon owner, because I actually have some clients right now that are salon owners that have team members. They are commission stylists. It’s a full service salon, but they don’t have levels. They want to have levels, but they don’t know how to implement them, because they have people that, some are younger, some are older, they’re all at different levels. How would you suggest someone get started in setting up the levels? And is that something that they can do if they’ve never done it?

Becky: I think so. I think that if they look at maybe who their top stylist is, what are they doing that is different from somebody who started six months ago? For me, it was kind of like, well, wait a minute now. The education that I have paid for, or the education I have put in, the client retention I have, the amount of booking. How can you kind of not separate, but distinguish them versus somebody starting out? What would determine whether I would want to be a level four? Well, the pricing is higher, your commission is higher, your time to pick the times that you want behind the chair are higher than somebody. And then the young ones will go, okay, I’m going to start at this level. This is my pricing. I have to grow, I have to get my new clients. Well, that is a level. And then what I would say is, look at what the top stylist is making, or even you yourself. Okay, so then look at a breakdown of maybe a stylist who is not quite as booked so far out as somebody else. What is their income? What is doable? And then drop it down. Because we have four levels, and then we have a 4A, which is four associate, and 4AA. And sometimes what we have seen is some top stylists could really go to the next level with two associates, so that they’re not working [inaudible] six days a week. And you know that it’s eventually going to wear them out.

So how can you create a level system that people want to step up and step up? What could we plan out for you as a new stylist? This is where we start out. So those goals and those things that they have in level one are doable. Okay, I can get that. Now, once they get to a two, they’re going to be interested in going, okay, [inaudible]. This is what I have to do to get to a two. This is what I need to learn. This is what my goals are, my retention. So they go there, they go to a three, and they go to a four. They used to say a level four gets an associate. Well, I think a level three, in order to get to a four, needs an associate, because you as a salon owner want to see their numbers go up. You want to see them succeed. You want to have them continue to want to work in your salon. So what else you can offer, things after that, if you can afford to offer, pay some of their medical, or pay PTO or something, at a level where you know is different than a level one. It’s doable goals. If somebody’s staying at a level one way too long, then it’s time for a conversation. It’s a way to say, oh, I can see what I can do next, or what my income would be next, and then the next. And how can I get there? What do I need to do to be able to attract a clientele that I would like? How am I doing with my advertising or social media? Or sometimes it’s even offering complimentary to somebody who’s… So you’re constantly looking for ways to prescribe things for your guests, or your referrals. Every new referral, that client benefits who they refer, and being able to really track that. Because as a hairdresser, or as a client, if I go into a clothing store and then I get a thank you card, that’s like, wow. What personal things that you can do and continue to do. So it’s consistent, and wanting to create a culture that supports each other, works as a team. That’s part of having a team. Everybody participates in teamwork. And I have been in booth rental. For some people, they like that. I prefer working with a lot of people. I like that. So I think it’s just taking your numbers, I guess I would say, on your top, and what is possible there.

How do you keep the top level stylist motivated? You get to the top here, but then you also have to create a path for where they could go. As far as, do you want to train? Do you want to become a shareholder? And for us, the salon pays for education for them to go outside of the salon.

Rebekah: So you’re saying that the growth never stops. It just keeps going. So then they are motivated to stay with you. They’re not like, I have to go. So you’re saying that’s one of the benefits too, that maybe they become another shareholder, and you have that conversation, and they take that second location. So even if you have those top performing team members, there’s always some level of growth that you can offer them to stay motivated, to stay with you, is what you’re saying.

Becky: Yeah.

Culture, and when someone is not a good fit

Rebekah: That’s good. Awesome. So Becky, what advice would you like to give to other salon owners in our industry? What would you say is the biggest thing that you’ve learned?

Becky: I would have to say to value your people. Put value in your people, create a culture that they want to be a part of. So create a culture as a whole, create a team. And not everybody wants to do everything. So it’s like respecting other people for what they want to grow in, say, spa versus hair, and being okay with, this is the culture I want to create. Because we all have an idea when we open a salon. What kind of culture do we want? What do we like? And if you have team players that are not your culture, it’s okay. It’s all right. Because the struggle of keeping somebody that you know is just not into that culture or that teamwork is disheartening, but it’s also pretty stressful. Because you know there’s nothing you can really do. And getting them to be, I guess I would say, how can we work as a team? What do we need to do? Create a code of honor. People, like I said, you really have to care in this industry. There is a lot of caring that goes on. And I think that to care for a team member, or to care, that’s what is the glue that keeps them together. And I think, what do you want your group? What do you want to do? Where do you want to go? And a lot of owners are not hairdressers at all. And I think that’s kind of cool, because you’ve got a different way of looking. But you’ve got to put yourself in somebody else’s shoes sometimes.

Becky: Yeah, taking that chance. And it is their chances. And not everybody’s going to stay with you. Not everybody’s going to want to stay with you. But I think that’s where keeping your communication level open.

Rebekah: And so you’re saying, if somebody has team members too that are not cooperating, let them go and be okay with that. And don’t try to hold on to the team member who’s probably going to cause that bad environment.

Becky: Yeah. And just having open conversations. And it doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with them or you because you couldn’t get them to sign up.

Knowing the why before you break the rules

Rebekah: So Becky, the final question I want to ask is, if you could pick one of your favorite mentors in the industry to spend the entire day with, from the beauty industry, it could be anywhere in the world, who would that be? And why would you choose them?

Becky: There’s a couple I would choose. [name unclear]. I mean, she’d be worn out at the end of it. Totally worn out. But just the breaking down things into the whys and what happens, and then how you could take that and go off of that as inspiration. And the different things, like the way she can cut, the way she can design, and just finding where she sees inspiration. Well, how did you see that in that? How did you… It’s inspiring to me. And oh, I love just to get down and set up my own challenges. And not that I’m going to be her or anything like that. But just to have, I think I could break this down and do this with that. And I think sometimes once you know the rules, now it’s time to break them and go backward.

Rebekah: That sounds like Vivienne. I think I’ve heard her say that a few times.

Becky: It’s just like in hair color. Once you know the chemistry, now you can start breaking them. But that’s kind of what I think has been the most fun, is to go in. And you always follow the rules. If you don’t have rules, people make up their own. But once you know the why behind it, well, why can’t I? Then you can start being creative with it. But you just have to know. It’s like you have to know the foundation, the structure, all of the things that matter. But then you are able to be creative and put your own design.

Rebekah: Right. And be able to say why I’m doing it this way.

Becky: Yeah. Because once you know that, then you can explain it. If you don’t know why, then you’re just going off and having a good time, and I don’t know why.

Final thoughts

Rebekah: Awesome. Okay, Becky, I’m going to stop our interview. But thank you so much for this time. Thank you for sharing. Is there anything else you want to add before we end it?

Becky: No, I was thinking about it. If you love creativity and the freedom to kind of put your creative inspiration out there, I think it’s a wonderful career. I think it’s a fabulous career.

Rebekah: Yes, it is.

Becky: And like I said, there’s different aspects to the whole profession. I would just say follow your gut and follow your inspiration. There’s so many people out there that would help you to get where you want to go, help you with education of any sort. It’s all out there. And nowadays, there’s so much online. So much available. There’s no excuse for not learning.

Rebekah: That’s right.

Becky: Challenge yourself. Go. I mean, even at 66, I’m going to work on that. I want to do something.

Rebekah: That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much.

Becky: You’re welcome.